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Episode 6

In this podcast episode, Shenikqwa Phillip discusses the need to create healthier and safer spaces for Black children and youth survivors of gender-based violence. She shares the importance of learning and understanding the historical and ongoing forms of systemic and institutional racism and other forms of oppression that impact how Black survivors access and receive supports. 

Shenikqwa emphasizes that supporting Black youth means giving them the space to live, exist, and thrive, empowering them to have autonomy and agency over themselves, and ensuring they have a voice to share feedback and concerns. Lastly, Shenikqwa offers recommendations for organizations and agencies to ensure there are mechanisms and structures in place that provide specific supports and programming for Black children, youth, and their families. 

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Guest

Shenikqwa Phillip’s (She/Her) passions are serving her community and creating constructive and accessible spaces for black youth. In her previous role as Program Manager for the Black Peer Education Network at Black Women in Motion, she oversaw the effective planning and implementation of the BPEN Program. In connection to her work with BWIM, Shenikqwa has worked several years within urban agriculture with an interest in environmentally sustainable practices and waste management; her connection to her Dominican (AKA The Nature Isle) and Ghanaian (AKA Home of Pan Africanism) roots heavily influence how she shows up in her work. Beyond work, Shenikqwa also enjoys traveling, creating, spending time with her family, and learning new things.

Host

Dr. Linda Baker is a Psychologist, Assistant Professor – Standing Appointment, and the former Learning Director of the Centre for Research & Education on Violence Against Women & Children (CREVAWC) at Western University. During her time with CREVAWC, Dr. Baker led the Learning Network and the Knowledge Hub. The Learning Network translates knowledge on the continuum of gender-based violence and the Knowledge Hub facilitates a trauma- and violence-informed community of practice with Canadian researchers and practitioners conducting innovative intervention research. She has over 25 years of experience in the mental health and justice systems, working with and learning from children, youth and families dealing with experiences of violence and trauma. Her direct service experience inspires and informs her research and commitment to knowledge translation through resource development and publications, knowledge exchange activities, and workshop presentations. Dr. Baker has co-authored numerous publications/resources related to intimate partner violence exposed children and families, including Walk Proud, Dance Proud: Footprints on a Healing Journey; Helping Children Thrive: Supporting Woman Abuse Survivors as Mothers; and Helping an Abused Woman: 101 things to Know, Say and Do. Her most recent work focuses on the application of intersectionality to research with and services for children exposed to IPV and the evaluation of IPV training programs. Prior to her current roles, Dr. Baker was the Director of the Centre for Children and Families in the Justice System (London Family Court Clinic). She participates regularly on faculty teams delivering Domestic Violence Institutes throughout the United States for the National Council of Juvenile and Family Court Judges and Futures Without Violence.

Transcript

00:00:18:00 - Linda

Hello and welcome to today's episode of the podcast, Little Eyes, Little Ears: Centering Children and Youth in Gender-Based Violence Work. This podcast is from the Learning Network at the Centre for Research and Education on Violence against Women and Children at Western University. The purpose of this podcast is to enhance work to support children and youth in contexts of intimate partner violence.

00:00:46:15 - Linda

I'm Dr. Linda Baker, and I'm pleased to host today's episode with our amazing guest, Shenikqwa Phillip. Shenikqwa Phillip’s passions are serving her community and creating constructive and accessible spaces for Black youth. In her previous role as a program manager for the Black Peer Education Network at Black Women in Motion, she oversaw the effective planning and implementation of the program.

In connection to her work with Black Women in Motion, Shenikqwa has worked several years within urban agriculture, with an interest in environmentally sustainable practices and waste management. Her connection to her Dominican, also known as the Nature Isle and Ghanian, and also known as Home of Pan-Africanism Roots, heavily influenced how she shows up in her work. Beyond work, Shenikqwa enjoys traveling, creating, spending time with her family and learning new things.

00:01:52:16 -Linda

Shenikqwa, welcome and thank you so much for being with us today. We're very interested in your work. We know you've been championing constructive and accessible spaces for Black youth. Will you just share a little bit more about yourself in your current work?

00:02:15:00 -Shenikqwa

Sure. So as you mentioned, I have done youth work or was in these works specifically supporting Black youth for several years with Black Women Motion, as well as other agencies in the GTA and afterschool programs and stuff like that.

And as well as my involvement with the organized Black Students Alliance up at the York University. And that's kind of like where it sparked for me at university, like the importance of having safe spaces and culturally relevant spaces and it being specific towards Black folks because it made a difference in how people were able to engage with their university experience.

00:03:01:02 - Shenikqwa

It made a difference in how folks were able to know that they weren't the only one and remove that veil of isolation that folks can usually feel within their first couple of years of university. And from there, I, you know, have been blessed to be able to be in other Black spaces that are doing similar work. And even when I'm not, I'm always making sure of like, how can we just make the space safe?

00:03:27:18 - Linda

Your work in creating healthier and safer spaces, learning spaces, but all kinds of spaces, just spaces that are healthy and safe for Black youth. We know from that work that you'll be very familiar with how experiences of gender-based violence such as sexual violence, can be particularly traumatic for any. But for Black youth, such harms can be further compounded. Can you speak more to this?

00:04:01:19 – Shenikqwa

Usually when we're having these conversations with Black youth, we try to start from, like, the root of it, right where it began, where it came from, where some of these racist ideologies that kind of have had a play in justifying violence towards Black folks and how that shows up now and how it's implicated now, right through our workshops, one in particular, like our Rape Culture and Media Literacy workshop, we really tried to talk about the colonial history of gender-based violence and how through chattel slavery, through different aspects of racism in history, sexual violence is justified towards Black folks, right?

00:04:56:24 - Shenikqwa

In terms of Black folks being oversexualized in a particular way and seen as objects, right. Literally at some point, three-fifths human. So, if someone is experiencing that violence but is not a human, how exactly are we going to be able to validate what they're experiencing, how exactly we're going to believe them?

That's where a lot of that comes from, right. Like that root. That root is in colonialism. So, we talk about pre as well, right? Pre-colonialism, pre -slavery. What were societies like? What did they exist like? And then talk about and to contrast what it was after that fact, right. And just the biological determinism that exists within colonialism again that justified about the violence towards Black folks.

00:06:01:05 – Shenikqwa

A lot of people don't know that history, right. I think especially in the context of Canada, it's only of recently, within the last few years that Black history has been pushed in a particular kind of way to understand the expanse of it, not just the Harriet Tubman coming here for freedom, but that there are some folks that came here and went back to the North because of the violences that they experienced here, as well as the fact that slavery was here as well, right.

00:06:39:00 -Shenikqwa

That Canada also has a colonial history of racial violence towards Black folks. So, when we're understanding that, then we can put to sense the systemic and institutional racism and violence that is experienced and why there may be stereotyping and just prejudgments when it comes to accessing support and not receiving support and just simply not being believed.

00:07:10:02 - Shenikqwa

Like one of the core things that we at Black Women in Motion thrives on is believing survivors and believing Black survivors. And that alone is such a powerful statement because we've seen with this workshop and even and contrasting it with what happens in the media, there are several situations that have happened towards Black folks where they experience gender-based violence or sexual violence.

And we've seen how those are treated versus other sorts of violences, how when we're applying intersectionality, the different levels of how one individual can experience life.

00:07:52:22 - Shenikqwa

We use the term intersectionality throughout what we're doing a lot, which is a term coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw, who is a Black lawyer from the States, a Black woman that talks about just the varying ways that an individual can experience discrimination or violences from the system, from one from their identity, whether it's your ability, whereas based off of your ability, your access, your your finances, your race, your class, your gender, even, you know, in context of how we discuss things.

Talking about colorism, shadism, all of these things play a factor as to how you'll be believed, how you'll get access, how you won't get access. That is normally how we would engage with these kind of conversations with the youth. And to make sure that we have a level of contrast and have a comparison to that to show them what exactly they're feeling, right. What exactly is happening. And that also allows for validation in those moments, right.

00:09:23:00 - Linda

I'm curious, you mentioned Shenikqwa, that for many young women, they have not had the opportunity to learn about the history that you're sharing in these workshops with them. And I'm just wondering what that is like, if you can help us understand a bit.

Is it, what do you see in terms when they become familiar with that history and the oppression and the resistance. What kind of reaction do young people have?

00:10:01:20 - Shenikqwa

Well, I would say that, I mean, I would say that when you're learning, when you're learning these things, the reaction initially, even for myself personally when I was learning from other folks that I've heard is the validation of knowing that like you, what you're feeling is not coming from anywhere.

That like when you're going into a space and someone is treating you differently or not treating you the same as someone else, that there's a reason for that, that there is institutional and systemic racism that exists and the bias that comes with that. The result is not getting the same level of access, the same level of attention, the same level of information as other people that are from different racialized backgrounds or from, you know, the majority.

it's important to do that when working with survivors, validate, validating and affirming and letting folks know that they're not too far from the mark as to what are, you know, feeling inside.

00:11:10:22 - Shenikqwa

And when you're learning these things and those things connect, then it helps with building a trust with yourself, like rebuilding that trust with yourself and trust generally that may have been lost in, you know, past experiences of harm.

00:11:33:13 – Linda

And the barriers that you're talking about in terms of it, not just, I mean, the most fundamental being believed, but in accessing supports, how are we doing with that? Are we making progress?

And I think that things like MeToo and other things that have had a lot of publicity have helped with that. But are we doing enough in terms of education, in terms of changing the colonial kinds of messages that have been imparted and the messages that the actual history that has not been shared?

00:12:17:10 – Shenikqwa

So, I would have to commend, you know, the Black leaders that have been doing the work when it comes to recognizing gender-based violence and sexual violence amongst the Black community.

Because if it weren't for marginalized folks stepping up and speaking out about the violences and injustices that they were facing, then this work would not exist, right. In the city, you know, we can commend lots of Black professors, lots of Black community leaders, community members as well, and advocates and activists that have just made a lot of noise about injustices they experience, right.

So, I think it would be a point to listen to those folks, right. Put our ear to the ground and hear what those folks are doing and have been doing and supporting their community, right. Black Women in Motion is a grassroots organization. It's been in existence for almost, if not a decade now. And it has remained a grassroots organization to continue to do the work that it has been doing, right.

00:13:34:06 – Shenikqwa

Some people are doing these things, taking a step back from whatever personal gain they can get to intentionally make an impact on their community, whether that be small or large. So, I think it would be important for the government, for organizations to contact people who can support them with doing consultations on whether or not they're supporting survivors accordingly, whether or not they are doing the necessary work and supporting survivors as well as confronting potential biases and judgment that they may have had that either they've known about and they're just sitting in it or they may not have known about it because they may not have had to engage with it.

00:14:29:09 – Shenikqwa

And there's obviously an open space in terms of learning. But we have to be prepared also to be called in, in terms of what we're not doing, called in and called out in terms of what we're not doing. But again, I would really stress, you know, recognizing reaching out and acknowledging the Black leaders that have been doing the work very well from for the past few years, we wouldn't have had a lot of these advancements if Black folks didn't make noise.

00:15:00:17 – Shenikqwa

We're making that noise generally, but it comes off the back of someone who had to lose their life to recognize how badly institutional violence is or how badly systemic violence is, how bad systemic violence is, right? When we think about Sandra Bland, George Floyd, Breanna Taylor, and these folks have experienced these different levels of violence, and we made that noise.

00:15:37:07 – Shenikqwa

That's when people do listen. But we can't keep on looking, we can't. People who have the access and power can not listen only when Black people die because we're living and we're existing and we're breathing and we're doing this work and wanting to do this work to help people thrive and live and build legacy. And in order for us to do that, we need to be given that space and that understanding and that willingness to learn and unlearn the things that are harming why we are not being believed as survivors of violence.

00:16:11:04 - Shenikqwa

Why are we going into spaces and we're getting side eyed when we're trying to get help, right. You know, and that we're not a monolith like there are folks that are queer, folks who live with disabilities, all of these things within our Black community. Right. And those folks who are in those spaces are still experiencing discrimination even within their intersections, right.

00:16:40:17 - Shenikqwa

So, it's important to know that being a Black person with different intersections, having also experienced sexual violence, is so layered and we have to constantly be learning and constantly be progressive in how we're addressing our entire communities and what they need.

00:17:05:17 - Linda

You eloquently described the workshops that you do through Black Women in Motion in terms of with young people and how education in the sense of Black history, Black current oppressions and anti-Black racism and the context that exists and the importance of understanding that context in terms of their experience as a survivor of sexual violence or other forms of violence.

I'm wondering, are there other strategies that you've used in your work in addition, that you think were particularly supportive to Black youth in terms of their surviving violence?

00:18:09:00 - Shenikqwa

Some of the ways that we try to make sure that we're staying relevant to the experiences of the youth that we're serving is by being unapologetic as to the information that we're sharing and how we're doing that, being unapologetic in in terms of just how we're doing this work, right. Being very specific about the people that we're talking about, the experiences that we're acknowledging.

Like it is a thoroughly Black program, right? It's like Black and I would say because again, Black folks are not a monolith, right. So, it's a thoroughly Black problem. And we in ourselves are constantly learning how do we address folks that live with disabilities?

How do we address folks that have experiences of being a refugee, how we address experiences of folks that deal with substance abuse? How do we address folks that are part of that LGBTQ+ community? There is always room to learn and grow and understanding our Blackness, as well as how other people have lived in their lives as black folks.

00:19:41:09 - Shenikqwa

And what would be the implications of violence onto someone who's living with varying levels of intersections, right. How would that impact their ability to gain the information that we have at some point, right. In terms of not having access to it. So, in recognizing, you know, we’re Black folks living in Canada, we know where the gaps are for ourselves, much less for those youth that we're working with.

00:20:20:11 - Shenikqwa

So, recognizing also how folks who are experiencing mental illness or deal with have issues surrounding mental health, how are we going to create a space where that is unique to where they are able to have those breaks when they need it, to break away from a capitalist structure of how work and things are and what is expected? How do we understand what type of what is an unrealistic expectation of us with where we're at?

00:20:58:22 – Shenikqwa

Recognizing, giving the room to recognize where we're at and say, okay, this is what I can do, right? Having the one on ones, having the check ins, having just room to learn and grow as we were also learning and growing because there are times that we have to check ourselves and be open about that. So, it's just when you're building community and stuff like that, you need trust, you need honesty.

00:21:22:24 – Shenikqwa

You need authenticity. You need to be able to feel and see failure, to be able to feel like you can be your whole self, but also see other folks being their whole selves, right. So, we tried like I think we talk about culturally-relevant programming. Sometimes folks treat it heavy-handedly. Heavy-handedly in terms of like in being maybe specifically African or specifically hip hop or specifically, you know, like being very specific as to like a particular aspect of Blackness when us as a community, again, not a monolith, and so vast, right.

00:22:06:01 – Shenikqwa

It would be impossible for us to do it all. But it's a matter of like as a progressive organization, as progressive folks doing this work, how are we going to do our best to make sure that everyone is feeling seen, how are we doing the intake to know who’s coming in so that we're going back and tweaking workshops or tweaking information or, you know, changing terminologies that might be dated to make sure that folks are coming in feeling seen, right?

When you're working with Black youth, when working with youth, but particularly Black youth, I would encourage that you always go back to the drawing board. Like if your youth are telling you, we don't like this, or, you know, this is not working for me or whatever, or an individual saying like, I don't have capacity, etc., there's no harm in going back to the drawing board.

I think in doing this work, in life in general, what I've been trying to adapt is that there's you will fail, you will fall.

00:23:06:23 - Shenikqwa

But like these are lessons. So how can we always learn from our lessons, like learn from those mistakes, learn from what may have worked, may not have worked? You know, we're making sure that we're intentional when it comes to our evaluations and going back and seeing how are folks, you know, receiving this, making sure, you know, we have an open door policy and making sure that we're remaining accountable to the things that we said we're going to do, right, to the best of our ability.

00:23:51:15 – Linda

Youth voice becomes really important in terms of their feedback and do you seek that out from them? And then that informs as you go step by step.

00:24:04:30 – Shenikqwa

Yeah. Being heard, I think for anyone is really important, but particularly when you experience certain levels of violence that could have been from your interpersonal space, right? Or from institutional space or, you know, other systems, other spaces that you've gone through. When you're able to put words to what you're saying to a group and space of people who understand that, who understand firsthand or are at least willing and open to learn, it makes a huge difference on a person's self-esteem and what they feel like they're able to do in other spaces.

00:24:45:08 - Shenikqwa

Because for some people they're coming in and they have a lot of knowledge and information, which for some people this is a stepping stone or a breaking point for them to be able to make the necessary changes that they would want. Even for me as a staff. There's so many ways and rollercoasters that I've gone through in doing this work, you know, from sadness to rage to joy to, you know, in having to engage and defend certain things, like it's a lot.

00:25:18:04 - Linda

When you talk about the power of this culturally-relevant programming, what are your thoughts? Can it be integrated into mainstream programming and other gender-based violence organizations?

00:25:34:11 - Shenikqwa

I would say that, yes. I mean, it just it would just need to be done intentionally. Like, that's the thing is that when we saw these violences happen, like during the pandemic to Black folks, then we saw the ways in which I feel like we saw in real life the ways in which people can take something like the advocacy of the work that people have done and that community activism and capitalize on it.

00:26:09:11 – Shenikqwa

Like all these organizations and corporations donating money or putting on their websites that we support Black Lives Matter, we support LGBTQ, etc., etc.. Right. Great. But what are you doing now? You did that then and then what are you doing now? It's 2023, three years later. Have you still continued the work in supporting Black folks who have experienced gender-based violence?

00:26:43:06 - Shenikqwa

Are you still doing the work and supporting Black youth, Black LGBTQ youth, etc. that even who haven't experienced violence that just need a space? Are you supporting the community on a whole with the messaging that, the same messaging that you portrayed in 2020, right. So, and I think that can go for agencies and community organizations on a whole that how are you applying the information that is very open and out there to the work that you're doing?

00:27:22:19 – Shenikqwa

If you know that there's a gap, how are you filling those gaps, right? How are we looking at the entire population of Canada, right? I think when it comes to Black folks and Indigenous folks and like people of color, sometimes there can be a veil or there's a glass ceiling, right. How are you and what are you doing to make sure that that glass ceiling doesn't exist and that it's open for folks to be able to come to your space and know that this is a safe space?

00:27:58:20 – Shenikqwa

How are you using the access that you have to make that change and not just like a one time thing, but if you really believe in supporting folks that have experienced extreme violence, what ways in your life are you continuously making efforts to do that, to change that?

00:28:22:17 – Shenikqwa

Some people might be able to do certain things are surface-level, but you will eventually see in their work how like the gaps in terms of what they're doing. How are we making intentional steps, right, to ensure that we are serving all communities to the best of our ability?

00:28:45:01 – Shenikqwa

And if we're not doing it to the best of our ability, why aren't we doing it right? We are a part of the Canadian population. Black folks are here. We've existed from the inception of Canada. We've existed, right. So, what makes serving this particular community difficult outside of, you know, racism, outside of these different forms of oppression? What does that?

00:29:20:17 – Linda

I’d like to go back for a minute, Shenikqwa, to the Black youth, they're engaged in resistance in their daily lives, whether they call it that or would describe it as that. They're resisting oppressions, resisting violence, including structural violence. Can you talk more with us about what that might look like and how we can support them in building resilience and their ongoing resistance?

00:29:57:16 – Shenikqwa

We can support Black youth that are living and existing and resisting and all of that by just allowing them to also exist. I think sometimes there's an expectation that, you know, Black folks have to, you know, go above and beyond, work twice as hard.

00:30:22:16 - Shenikqwa

And sometimes Black folks just need a space. Black youth just need the space to exist, just to be, you know, I'm coming here to learn this thing and that I'm going to leave. Like not everyone like, you know, recognizing personalities, who's the overachiever, who's not, like seeing folks as a whole versus as their adversity. This person's coming to get the support that they need but that doesn't mean they have to champion, if you know what it is that they're doing.

There's some people that will definitely be able to do that. But there's other folks that are like just trying to get over this particular narrative and story that they've told themselves that may not be positive and move on from it, right. And I think allowing Black youth to exist as Black youth is support enough, you know, in terms of giving them jobs, making education accessible, having programs that encourage their interests, having accessible mental health resources, these different kind of things just day by day, even when we're even thinking about food insecurity, a part of what we did in our programming is that while folks were in our programming, they received food boxes or gift cards every month as a part of our programming because you can't learn if you're hungry. Now, look, you know, it's hard. There's basic needs, right? There's basic needs that Black youth have that, you know, we support, we need to support.

00:32:18:15 – Shenikqwa

And just getting to know where Black youth are generally, because not all black youth are in the same place, not all of them in their journeys. So, it's just like, what are you need? Ask, you know, genuine questions. Again, going back to the like our process with Black Women in Motion, we had check ins, you know, every couple of months or so just to see where folks are at.

00:32:43:11 – Shenikqwa

But we also most importantly had an open-door policy that if folks needed additional support or additional check in, additional time, that they knew they could come to us even after programming. If you've wanted any resources or information about stuff, it's like, sure, connect with us. We'll send that. There's nothing to that, right?

00:33:08:13 – Shenikqwa

Yeah, it's really important for Black youth to feel, you know, who are survivors in particular. People have experienced violence of guilt, seen, heard and believed. I feel like those are the three things that can really help their process, right? Whatever that is.

00:33:36:21 – Shenikqwa

You just need to be heard and believed. Just start there, you know, and just see people, their personalities, how they act, what makes them happy, what makes them sad, you know, and where people are in their day to day. Sometimes we would do check ins, where are we on one to ten, right. And some people would be at like three or four.

00:34:03:03 - Shenikqwa

Some people would be like seven, eight. But the most important thing is that everyone showed up. So that means there's some level of care for self, right? So, it's just a matter of continuing that formula of making sure folks feel seen, heard and believed and through community, through a sense that that group that came together, showed up.

00:34:27:04 - Shenikqwa

That's there's a sense of belonging, a sense of connection that's happening in that program. Yeah. And I think in addition to that and specifically talking about survivors of gender-based violence, it's also autonomy that I think is a huge component in this particular work. How are folks able to take back their autonomy?

00:34:50:13 – Shenikqwa

What are the things that we're doing to allow folks to know that they have autonomy over themselves, right. Because we're talking about a space where a lot of folks have had things taken from them, where space has been taken, violence has been impacted, like attention has been given that's not wanted, things have been said and not wanted and just ways people have challenged, you know, their space.

00:35:12:18 - Shenikqwa

And one of the things I think is really important outside of being seen, heard and believed is how are you, what structures do you have in place that allow this individual to build, build their autonomy back to themselves? I think that's really empowering when it comes to supporting survivors, particularly Black youth.

00:35:48:19 – Linda

So really, that sense of agency. You've shared so much with us and I'm just wondering if you think about the next 20 years, the future, what would you like to see change, especially in terms of how we support Black children and youth survivors of gender-based violence?

00:36:09:05 – Shenikqwa

I mean, I would love to see organizations like Black Women in Motion and other Black-serving agencies and organizations, grassroots organizations have the ability to just have their own spaces and, you know, to be able to do this work. A lot of people who are doing this work are doing it like by the skin of their teeth, even in terms of the grant writing and all that, just having more access to space and things like that.

So, to be able to do the work accordingly, do the work in the way that it's envisioned to be done, and even agencies that are not serving, specifically serving Black folks, but all agencies having a thorough support system and thorough understanding of what it looks like to support Black folks, Black youth, Black children, Black families, right.

00:37:21:06 – Shenikqwa

And obviously, you know, we want to be able to do things as holistically, you know, applying transformative justice models where we can. But it's just important for us to just fully be open to seeing and believing Black youth and children when they come forward about their experiences of gender-based violence and that corporations, organizations, community organizations, nonprofits, whatever, have progressive, anti-Black racist structures and how they're able to support Black folks in their communities whether or not there's a lot of Black folks in their community. But just having the models there.

00:38:07:22 - Linda

Shenikqwa Phillip, thank you so much for being here with us today, for making the time to share your experiences and insights in terms of this really important area of supporting Black youth in particular Black child and youth survivors of violence. And we know that your insights will have meaning for so many others who are also working to bring about the change that you're hoping to see in 20 years. So hopefully soon, that would be wonderful.

00:38:45:45 - Shenikqwa

Thank you so much for having me. The Learning Network has been so great and has touched on so many different topics and just in such creative ways and it's such an expanse of speakers. I'm so honored to even be able to be on this podcast. So, thank you, Linda, for all the work that you've been doing with having these conversations, even when they got hard. Thank you so much

00:39:12:12 - Linda

It's our honor. Please stay tuned for our next episode. And you can do that by looking out for an email from the Learning Network and to see when that episode is ready. Take care and goodbye!